…and the people spoke

Posted: November 5, 2008 in Politics

At the time of this posting (8:15pm), it appears that America has just elected its first Black President.
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I’ll have much more to say on this historic moment later.

From not having the right to vote to President of the United States. Truly historic!!

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Comments
  1. Keith says:

    I cannot say that I am pleased, however Barack Obama will be my president and does have my prayers.

    I congratulate Mr. Obama.

  2. Peg says:

    Testament to the strength of our nation and the ability of humans to better themselves.

    President-elect Obama did not get my vote. But, he will have my support as president – and I hope that I am pleasantly surprised about my fears and concerns.

  3. Wil says:

    I am old enough to remember once being refused service in a segregatred ice cream parlour as a young child. Now we will have a black president – great progress has been made. This is a monumental moment in history, and we all had the chance to support him. I hope the haters can re-evaluate their positions.

  4. Roni says:

    I too have experienced first hand being refused entrance into public restrooms, eating places, etc. because of the color of my skin. But this election was so much bigger than the color of one’s skin. After growing up in an era and area where segregation was the norm; yes it is an historical event to have a man of color in the White House. But we as a people really need to begin to look beyond the surface and look at the real heart of the matter.

    I am black and will always be black, I cannot deny that, I cannot change that…but I can choose to change myself for the better if need be. I should not depend upon a mere man to be the answer to my problems and issues.

    I will respect Obama as president, but I do not support his beliefs on many issues, most importantly on abortion. I would be a fool to say that I believe in the sanctity of life and then vote for someone that does not.

    A several days ago we all felt the pangs of sorrow as a black 7 year old was found dead in an SUV. I am sure that we were all hoping and praying that he would be found alive, but someone chose to take his life. We were shocked and angered that someone could do that to an innocent child. Well guess what…we now have in office someone who believes that it is okay to take the life of an innocent child…and may God have mercy on our souls.

  5. Thuyen says:

    “Well guess what…we now have in office someone who believes that it is okay to take the life of an innocent child…and may God have mercy on our souls.”

    I agree with you 100 percent.

    But Obama made a promise not just to his liberal supporters but also to his conservative opponents, that he will not just listen to those who support him but also to those who did not support him. I hope and pray this will be the case on the issue of abortion.

    He is a reflection of how far we as a nation have gone down when it comes to the issue of human life and abortion. We murdered probably over 50 million unborn babies as a nation. We truly deserve God’s judgment and wrath for our sins there.

    We do have Scriptures to guide us in regards to the President-elect whose known past policies we abhor, especially on human life:

    1 Timothy 2
    1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

    2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

    3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

    4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    We need to pray for Obama. For better or worse, he is OUR President now, and where he does right with God, we need to support him, and where he leads us down a path that will spiritually destroy us, we need to make our opposition to his policies known, but never forgetting to honor him as our President by praying for him.

    Christ did die for Obama, too. And He did die to take away the sin of abortion, as well as the sin of enabling it.

  6. Solacious says:

    What interests me so much, is that this monumental moment has been reduced by the commentators here, to whether or not our President believes in abortion. I don’t believe in it, but I do believe that it is very much a personal decision for those involved. While, so many disagree with his stance on this issue, I believe that some of you may have voted for McCain who was oblivious to something that could help the abortion issue… um birth control. When asked earlier on in the race, McCain was ignorant to the fact that birth control pills aren’t paid for by insurance companies who show bias when paying for viagra. McCain, an admitted adulterer, may have have some of your beliefs, but what was he going to do about assisting the entire country who doesn’t share those same beliefs? Was he going to only serve those voters? I appreciate Obama’s promise to earn all of our votes, not just the ones who agreed with him. All this to say that I am excited about our nation’s choice for President. I am a person with some conservative views that just believes that my view may not always be the best and most right view, so I’m open to understanding the basis of the views of others. I believe that Americans were ready for this very type of President. Not someone who dismissed the needs and desires of one portion of the race only to pay lip service to another.

  7. Give it a rest says:

    “Well guess what…we now have in office someone who believes that it is okay to take the life of an innocent child…and may God have mercy on our souls.”

    Roni,

    When you KNOWINGLY put forth twisted and backwards logic in an attempt to promote your “so-called” Godly view you are actually digging yourself deeping into a hole of blasphemy.

    Although you may think statements like that are witty or cute, in all actuality they only make you look like an ignorant “wannabe” Christian. Are you interested in enlightening people or do you just wish to take jabs at Obama born out of your own lack on tolerance?

    On the one hand you wish to come off here as pious and sanctified but on the other you are perfectly willing to stretch the truth and put forth a willful misinterpetation and false analogy in an attempt to display your fake angel wings to us.

    Brother do some soul searching and think about what being a real Christian is before you invoke God in an attempt to shame or damage another man’s good name.

  8. Roni says:

    “Give it a rest” name calling will not get you anywhere, at least not with me anyway, like I said before, been there done that.

    Now… answer me this. does Obama believe in abortion? Okay to abort an unborn child is to take away the life of an innocent human being that has no say so in the matter nor has done anything to provoke their demise. Correct? Now..let’s put that all together. O-B-A-M-A believes that it is okay to take the life of an innocent human being. Now isn’t that what I said?

    We have downplayed this act so much until now we are desensitized by the horror of the fact that millions of human beings have been murdered in this country alone through abortion. Now the truth is the truth.

    It is awesome that a black man is President, but what would be really awesome would be if he would take a stand for the lives of these unborn children. Of course you can’t stop anyone from getting an abortion if that is what they want to do. But that does not mean we have to put a stamp of approval on it.

    Taking another person’s life is a serious thing. Now we may try to cover it up and act like it is not a major issue, but it is. And until we accept the seriousness of abortion…again I say…may God have mercy on our souls.

  9. Thuyen says:

    “Taking another person’s life is a serious thing. Now we may try to cover it up and act like it is not a major issue, but it is. And until we accept the seriousness of abortion…again I say…may God have mercy on our souls.”

    Yeah, not just murder. But murder of the most defenseless on earth- the unborn infants. Hitler killed 6 million Jews and Nazi Germany as a result was considered one of the worst mass murder nation in the world. What does that make us as a nation when over 50 million babies were killed by our abortion factor?

    People want to make it a man vs woman issue of abortion. I find that intellectually dishonest.

    It is a parent vs child issue. It is whether or not the parent has absolute rights to do as the parent please with his or her own child, even to the point of physical abuse. And abortion is the apex of child abuse- being that it is child murder.

    Abortion makes the unborn property of the mother. It is not the issue so defined the pro-choicers as it is just woman’s body issue. No, it is the child’s body that the mother and the hitmen for hire, uh I mean, abortion “doctors”, that is being made property and disposed of as please.

    The child becomes property of the mother in the name of privacy, where if one argues for privacy for issues like making woman property of a man, or someone property of another based on skin color or economic status, people would protest. And rightfully so.

    Dred Scott case and Roe vs Wade case are not far apart in the twisted use of the language of privacy and property where human beings are involved and treated like the latter.

    “Of course you can’t stop anyone from getting an abortion if that is what they want to do. But that does not mean we have to put a stamp of approval on it.”

    Bingo. No one is going to stop psychos like Cho and others from going on shooting rampages if they wanted to do it and had means and opportunity to do so, but we still should make murder illegal. No one is going to stop people from stealing or robbing another, but that does not mean we should legalize robbery either.

  10. Thuyen says:

    “Although you may think statements like that are witty or cute, in all actuality they only make you look like an ignorant “wannabe” Christian. Are you interested in enlightening people or do you just wish to take jabs at Obama born out of your own lack on tolerance?”

    No, your statements make you look like you have a lot to learn about Christianity.

    Historic Christianity has always been opposed antinomianism in all its forms. Even the Reformers, like Luther and Calvin, who affirmed justification by faith alone, opposed lawlessness or turning grace into a license for sin.

    And the Bible has little tolerance for sin either, in both the OT and the NT.

    Paul himself wrote of those, who he had said are justified by faith, not of works, that they are to work out their salvation with fear and trembling. He also said through faith we uphold the law. Peter likewise spoke out against lawlessness and wrote of those who preached that as denying the Saviour who bought them. He went on to say it would have better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, then to know the Saviour and walk away back into a life of sin.

    Nowhere does the Bible preach the kind of tolerance liberals demand from Christians. Christ said that He is the way, the truth, and the life, and that NO ONE comes to the Father but through Him.

    In actuality, liberals who complain about lack of tolerance from Christians don’t tolerate Christians who believe in absolute truth and who believe there is such thing as sin to God.

    You put yourself in a quandary in saying how wrong one is for taking a stand on an issue like abortion. If it is lack of tolerance to have a standard by which one judge something like abortion is wicked, then by what standard can you judge anyone as wrong or so on?

    And how far do you want to go with your argument about tolerance?

    Are Christians intolerant bigots if they say that abortion is sinful, murderous, and violating another person’s right, but not intolerant bigots if they say similar things about slavery?

    After all, the abolitionist movement in both England and America was CHRISTIAN-DRIVEN. And no one can accuse the abolitionist Christians of being tolerant in how liberals define the word tolerance as in accepting the practices of things that Christians find sinful and wicked.

  11. Thuyen says:

    “It is awesome that a black man is President”

    That is where I have mixed feelings. It is awesome that we have first minority President. I just wish some of his policies that he showed in the past are different and I hope he don’t use them now, especially when it comes to issues like abortion.

  12. Thuyen says:

    “What interests me so much, is that this monumental moment has been reduced by the commentators here, to whether or not our President believes in abortion.”

    In actuality, I wish the Republicans would have reduced the issues down to abortion. They would have been staying true to their principles when their party was founded in 1856.

    The party was founded initially then revolving around the issue of slavery. Abolitionist members of the Liberty Party, Free-Soilers, and former Northern Whigs who opposed slavery, formed a coalition that became the Republican Party.

    So the party started out as a one issue party, just like its predecessor, the Liberty Party was. Yes, it had other issues on its platform, but the election of 1860 revolved around the issue of slavery, and the Republican Party stood out as the party that opposed slavery spreading into territories and was for slavery eventually dying out.

    That was a party that actually stood for something of moral value.

    If one believes abortion is MURDER, then it is worth making the election a ONE issue thing.

    The Republicans basically made it a ONE issue thing back when they were founded right before the Civil War.

    Too bad in this day and age they lost their moral compass when it comes to abortion.

  13. MICHAEL says:

    Shame on you America for electing one such as barrack as your leader! A curse shall befall your nation, such as has never been before on earth!Whoa to you that cast your hand to elect him. You have sinned a great sin against God! MICHAEL

  14. Solacious says:

    And THANKYOU Michael for rewriting the BIBLE!!! Hand Clap!!!! You’ve got to be kidding me.

    Thuyen, I definitely believe that abortion is wrong but is that your only problem with Obama.. … Because there are millions of living children who fall vitims to poverty everyday and then there are thousands of humans who die at the other end of guns by wars and conflic that we, the U.S. started…. Are you just as concerned about them as well? Or is it simply easy to defend the right of unborn children because they have no voice and can’t disagree with your beliefs? How about putting your arguments for those that are actually walking this earth, today. The ones that have made it out the womb but we pass on the street everyday and ignore.

  15. Punisher says:

    “Because there are millions of living children who fall vitims to poverty everyday and then there are thousands of humans who die at the other end of guns by wars and conflic that we, the U.S. started…. Are you just as concerned about them as well? Or is it simply easy to defend the right of unborn children because they have no voice and can’t disagree with your beliefs? How about putting your arguments for those that are actually walking this earth, today. The ones that have made it out the womb but we pass on the street everyday and ignore.”

    Let me address several things. Poverty should be the concern of both pro-lifers and pro-choicers. Poverty is just convenient excuse to justify abortion. If anybody is not willing to help the children who already born, it would be those who commit abortion, or otherwise they would not have it.

    Pro-lifers have plenty of organizations and shelters for women and children. The attacks by pro-choicers on pro-lifers for not wanting to help those who are already born is nonsense.

    And you say that it is easy to defend the right of unborn children because they have no voice and can’t disagree with my beliefs?

    The fact they have no voice or say is precisely why it is so wrong to kill them. They are defenseless!

    Would you be happy that those in the past who oppress others argue it is easier to defend the rights of women and minorities because they have no voice in government or voting, so it somehow justified continuing oppressing them?

    It is funny you should even use that as an argument for right to kill the unborn!

    You say we should care for those once they are born.

    How is it caring for these children when you are for right to kill them and not give them right to be born? How do you care for someone who is killed off and not be given to have people care for that person?

    I don’t see pro-choicers arguing the right to abort on grounds those born will have sad life as genuinely concern for those born into the world. They just want the right to abort and the excuse of the born might suffer life is just, like I said, convenient excuse.

    It is like arguing “the only way to love the person is to kill that person.”

    That is what it amounts to when pro-choicers say the unborn are better off dead if the unborn will grow into the world in poverty or whatever bad circumstances pro-choicers imagine may happen, as if pro-choicers have some gift of predicting the future (they don’t).

    It is not real love whosoever.

    And let’s not confuse issues here.

    It takes a lot of hate to murder someone this cold-heartedly. Not love.

    Abortion involves direct murder of a human being. Worse, it involves both mothers and guns for hires, uh I mean abortion doctors, conspiring to off the children not yet born.

    Wars involve two or more nations going at it for their own security and interest.

    Nowhere does the Bible condemn war is murder.

    And soldiers who killed each other knew what they were getting into when they signed up for the military. They knew that one day they may be called to fight and die for their country.

    Soldiers have a choice.

    Unborn children don’t.

  16. Thuyen says:

    “Thuyen, I definitely believe that abortion is wrong but is that your only problem with Obama.. ”

    I keep posting by another name, Punisher. Back to using my real name.

    Here goes also…what happen if I tell you I believe some other form of murder is wrong, but I am for right to choose that murder without legal consequences? What happen if I say the same about some other violent crimes like assault or robbery? Would you say we should have right to choice then?

    If you believe abortion is murder and is wrong but you say people should have right to commit that form of murder, you saying you disagree with it does not mean a whole lot.

    It is like saying I believe slavery is wrong but I for right for slaveowners to decide for themselves.

    Whether it is abortion, slavery, robbery, or some other violent crime, if it violates the right of others in terms of life, liberty, etc., it should be forbidden- legally. Period.

  17. Give it a rest says:

    “Nowhere does the Bible condemn war is murder.

    And soldiers who killed each other knew what they were getting into when they signed up for the military. They knew that one day they may be called to fight and die for their country.

    Soldiers have a choice.”

    WOW, just WOW! may god has mrecy on your soul.

    So, becuase you did not read it in the Bible you are incapable of deciding for yourself if war is right or wrong?

    Stick to the narrow focus of abortion before you make total fool of youself!

  18. sjreese says:

    With the election of Barack Obama, I’m now giving you the contact information from the transition team. If you would like the name someone to be in the new government or have some ideas about what you think is the number one issues are then… The phone number for the transition headquarters is 202-540-3000. The official website for the transition is http://www.change.gov and it will be live later today.

    Transition Senior Staff:

    Chris Lu – Executive Director

    Dan Pfeiffer – Communications Director

    Stephanie Cutter – Chief Spokesperson

    Cassandra Butts – General Counsel

    Jim Messina – Personnel Director

    Patrick Gaspard – Associate Personnel Director

    Christine Varney – Personnel Counsel

    Melody Barnes – Co-Director of Agency Review

    Lisa Brown – Co-Director of Agency Review

    Phil Schiliro – Director of Congressional Relations

    Michael Strautmanis – Director of Public Liaison and Intergovernmental Affairs

    Katy Kale – Director of Operations

    Brad Kiley – Director of Operations

    Millions of Black people in America and billions around the world are greeting the sweeping Republican defeat with a sense of relief and even exhilaration. However, their interpretation of the Obama victory is very different from that of the Democratic Party leadership, including Obama himself, and the ruling class constituency that backed the Illinois senator as “Johnny come lately” as you can see from the list above.

    The US media will doubtless say that the Democratic victory is not a mandate for a radical change of course. Already, even before the votes were counted and Obama’s victory was officially acknowledged, leading Democrats were putting forward precisely this position. New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, who threw his support to Obama during the Democratic primary contest, cautioned Tuesday night that the Democrats should “be modest” and “seek alliances.” Georgia Congressman John Lewis echoed these remarks, saying the Democrats had to “go slowly” and pursue a “bipartisan” course.

    In fact, last Tuesday’s election was a clear popular mandate for a reversal of right-wing-klux’cer policies that have largely been of a bipartisan character.

    Whatever satisfaction the Democratic Party draws from its victory is tempered by the realization within President-elect Obama’s inner circle, the party leadership and the political establishment that the mass expectations and hopes aroused by the election will not be easily contained. The outcome of the election sets the stage for a new and protracted period of intense “fight for your rights” conflict in the United States… That said…

    These are the names and contact information you need for JOBS and STAFF positions in the Obama Administration.

    Seek Justice

  19. Thuyen says:

    “So, becuase you did not read it in the Bible you are incapable of deciding for yourself if war is right or wrong?

    Stick to the narrow focus of abortion before you make total fool of youself!”

    I am more than capable of deciding for myself if war is right or wrong. Nor did I suggest I am incapable of deciding for myself. You simply imagine that then say I made a total fool of myself. In actuality, look in the mirror next time you resort to that tactic (not the first time you used it either, and not the first time it backfired as well).

    I didn’t say the Bible does not decide which war is wrong and which war is right. I said the Bible does not say war in of itself is murder. Otherwise, you would have to condemn God as a murderer since more than a few times God raised people up like Gideon, Joshua, King David, etc. to fight wars for him. Nor does Christ ever tell centurions to stop being centurions when they believed in Him.

    There are principles in the Bible that do articulate what is a just war and what is an unjust war. In other words, which war is right and which war is wrong. Examples of just wars fought by the US included the Civil War and WW2.

    FYI, I opposed the war against Iraq as an unjust war (in other words, I see it as WRONG since it was fought IMO on FALSE pretenses). I was making a point that there is no comparison between those aborted and those soldiers who died on the battlefield.

    Wars become murder if it involves genoicide, like what the Germans did to the Jews in conquered terrioritories like Poland and Russia.

    Buf if you are going to say wars in of themselves equal murder, don’t just use each time neocons like Bush fight wars. Do that on liberals like Clinton and perhaps Obama, if he ends up embroiled in another country’s affair and war, as well.

    “WOW, just WOW! may god has mrecy on your soul.”

    I suggest you actually take the time to get my point is before you get high and mighty about how superior you are in terms of intelligence and debating prowess.

    Calling others fools and not interacting with them don’t prove your ability to rebut- they prove your ability to namecall. Period.

  20. Solacious says:

    “It is funny you should even use that as an argument for right to
    kill the unborn!”

    And where did I say that I agree with abortion????? Reading between the lines are we, or are your two personalities colliding with each other? Thuyen, Punisher, Whatever – both lost in translation!

    “That is what it amounts to when pro-choicers say the unborn are better off dead if the unborn will grow into the world in poverty or whatever bad circumstances pro-choicers imagine may happen, as if pro-choicers have some gift of predicting the future (they don’t)”

    I must commend you, you have definitely filled in all the unnecessary gaps of this argument very well. Unfortunately, I don’t see a soap box and I’m not going to defend statements you assume I believe in… Fact of the matter, Obama is your president now and though abortion rights are a hot issue for some, that shouldn’t be the only issue you judge this man on…. There is so much to be done in this country, and abortion is just one issue. I mention human beings who are living now, because soooo many people forget about them. I would never say abort a child because they might live in poverty.. You are connecting the dots with your own imagination. Not my statements. What I am saying is that educutaion and access are 2 very important things to consider before one even thinks about pregnancy and whether or not to abort. Umm what’s that word again,,,, oh yeah! PREVENTION!!! Get on a soapbox for that! I mention war because, while Bush stood firmly against abortion, he won his presidency on the basis of starting a war to find bin Laden, and well, if its ok to kill Iraqis who don’t have bin Laden, why don’t you think its ok to to kill the unborn? Just a rhetorical question… Did you vote for Bush?

  21. Richard Froggatt says:

    I wouldn’t worry too much about Michael’s statement. That is unless he’s the Archangel Michael, but that’s impossible since the Archangel Michael only posts on blogger.

  22. Thuyen says:

    “And where did I say that I agree with abortion????? Reading between the lines are we, or are your two personalities colliding with each other? Thuyen, Punisher, Whatever – both lost in translation!”

    Reread what I wrote: “an argument for right to
    kill the unborn.” with the operative word being “RIGHT.”

    Did you not say that while you disagree with abortion, you are for people having RIGHT to make choice for abortion? Yes or no? I didn’t claim you agree with abortion. I was pointing out in the two posts that to say you disagree with abortion but for right of people to do it is really meaningless.

    What would you think of a person who was for Hitler rising to power knowing Hitler would kill off so many Jews, Poles, etc., on grounds Hitler would do great for economy of Germany and there are other issues besides antisemitism and genoicide to worry about in Nazi Germany? Would you accept the statement it is ok to be for Hitler on grounds the Holocaust should not be the only issue to judge Hitler by?

    What would you think of a person in the 1800s who says he is against slavery but he will vote for a person who is as diehard for slavery as one can be on grounds that there are other issues besides slavery and we should not make slavery the only issue to judge candidate?

    You would be right to charge me with imagining things you wrote if I claim you were for abortion. I did not. I said you were for “right” of a person to have an abortion. You yourself said: “I don’t believe in it, but I do believe that it is very much a personal decision for those involved.”

    The part that got me was when you said “Or is it simply easy to defend the right of unborn children because they have no voice and can’t disagree with your beliefs?”

    Would you say that in regards to right of born children who are still infants? What about the mute? Or those who physically can speak that we can hear and understand, but have no say in the government and voting (like minorities and women) in the past?

    That is why I find what you write there disturbing.

    Just because a person has no say in whether he or she should be murdered or not does not give us the right to murder that person! That is precisely why your statement there sound so disturbing.

    It is easy to defend right of those who are the most abused for me. I am as anti-child abuse as one can be, and abortion tops the list of what child abuse is all about.

    And you also did your own form of “imagination” when you assume pro-lifers 1) don’t care about those who are already born and 2) are for pro-war.

    You assume wrong. Most pro-lifers are pro-active in other aspects of society especially charities, women’s shelters, helping needy kids, etc. There is no shortage of such conservative Christian organizations!

    It is cop-out argument used by pro-choicers on pro-lifers.

    And again, there is no comparison between wars and abortion. Abortion involves direct murder of a human being. Wars involve two nations going at it.

    Yes, wars can turn into murder, where for example genoicide is involved.

    But regardless, not all pro-lifers are for pro-war. There are conservative pro-lifers who turned on the Republican Party over the war with Iraq.

    I voted for Republicans the last two elections but with a TERRIBLE taste in my mouth. The key issue was for abortion. Republicans don’t do anything about it (making them hypocritical when they speak of themselves as party of values and life), but at least they won’t do anything to further it. Democrats in general speak in terms of reproductive choice act that would negate every state restriction on abortion.

    Both parties to me are two sides of the same coin when it comes to warmongering. If you are going to condemn Bush for leading us to war on false pretense with Iraq, such as over his claim of WMD, should you also not condemn Clinton and his Democratic party when he was President and he made the same claim and was on the verge of leading us to war before he left office?

  23. Thuyen says:

    And my problem is not so much with Obama on abortion as you assume. It is with the entire leadership of the Democratic Party for rejecting any attempts to restrict it. It is with the Republican Party for talking a good game about morality and life but not following through once in power for so many years. It is with the culture that we live in. Obama’s views on abortion is merely the product of OUR culture. I don’t so much blame Obama in so much as I blame our own nation that allowed abortion to become trivial when it involves bloodshed of innocent children.

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