BOYCOTT: The Animated Series

Posted: August 14, 2008 in Education, Headlines, Our children, Politics

What do you do when only 37% of just the Black males alone in your school system graduate high school (Illinois is ranked 43 in the country for graduating Black males) and you blame much of that on school funding? You demand daddy government to pay his child support. In other words, BOYCOTT!

A school boycott, or not?
Ministers rally to urge kids to stay home on first day of class, but a dads group opposes the idea as school funding issue is weighed
By Robert Mitchum and Ray Long | Chicago Tribune reporters

Nearly 50 ministers on Monday embraced plans for students to boycott at least the first day of Chicago Public Schools classes, a move aimed at ramping up pressure on state officials to address widespread inequities in education funding.

The church leaders from the city’s West and South Sides pledged their support as lawmakers return to Springfield on Tuesday to meet in a special session Gov. Rod Blagojevich called to consider the funding issue that has vexed lawmakers for decades.

Gathering outside Marshall High School, 3250 W. Adams St., the ministers said they would urge their congregations and communities to participate in the first-day boycott Sept. 2 and attempt to enroll Chicago students in New Trier Township High School District 203 in north suburban Winnetka.

“We refuse to continue to allow the State of Illinois to orphan our educational system,” said Rev. Albert Tyson of St. Stephen AME Church.

Sen. James Meeks (D-Chicago) is leading this operation of course. Here is his grand plan for the boycott.

Meeks has said Chicago students should not stop the boycott after one day. He wants the students to continue their protest by showing up in the lobbies of downtown Chicago buildings, where they could be taught by retired teachers as they wait for education funding reform. (more…)

So you’re gonna pull these kids out of school and place them in a WORSE situation by having them taught by retired teachers (I’m curious as to how many teachers are on board with his plan).

No word yet on when he plans to march for more parental involvement.

Also, let’s not forget that as of 2007, 43% of Democratic Senators practice school choice by sending their kids to private school while at the same time vote against giving parents in these communities the opportunity to use school vouchers–something that could give these kids some options for their education.

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Comments
  1. Wizz says:

    Do you belive there is a problem with school funding or not? If so what is your solution to THAT problem. I already agree that parental involvement is also a problem so there is no need to bring that up again in your answer.

  2. Duane says:

    He and his party has done nothing to pressure teacher unions (whom they undyingly support) to come up with real solutions that will keep good teachers in inner-city schools. When you look at how much money collectively these unions get from teachers each paycheck and how much of it they throw in lobbying/supporting a certain candidate all while many of these poor teachers oftentimes have to go into their own pocket to buy supplies for the class, it’s flat out wrong.

    Not too long ago I listened to a local politician (can’t remember his name) who was taking a similar stance like Meeks on this issue. When the host was able to show him in raw numbers that the state did in fact increase spending for schools in that state, his reply was “Well, we’re not seeing it.”

    Meeks and others know good and well the reason why states throw more money to suburban schools (which b.t.w. more Black parents are relocating to send their kids) is because A. suburban students have a support system at home that actually cares about their education CONSISTENTLY and B. Proven results. That is the one good thing I liked about NCLB. If your school is consistantly underperforming, your funding gets reduced. And that money goes to schools that are performing well.

    Another point- Inner cities typically have very low turnout in local political races. So the same clowns are basically handed a ‘business as usual’ pass from their consituents. Unless locals care enough to throw out these clowns if this continues to happen under their watch, folks should not be surprised with the results.

    Obama …sorta has the right idea for linking teachers pay to class performance. But just like with NCLB, there are just some factors to class performance that just cannot be controlled by the teacher.

    So do I believe there is a problem with funding for these schools in ChiTi? No doubt. But the reasons are much more complex than Black and White (as Meeks is suggesting here).

    Sorry for the long response, but I wanted to make sure I covered the basics.

  3. Give it a rest says:

    There is a great deal of truth to the notion of parental involvement being key to a successful education, BUT there is also a great deal of falicy behind this arguement.

    The American education systems was designed to work WITHOUT parental involvement. It did a fabulous job of forcing many farmers and immigrants to send their children to school to get an education that the parents did NOT feels was necessary to be a good farmer or whatever trade the family was involved in.

    Today we has an very LAZY education system in the country that is filled with a bunch of folks that feel they should be paid over $100,000 because they are well educated, NOT because they are actually doing a good job of making sure that today’s children turn into good productive citizens. We also have a culture that has openly determined that Black and Latino Children DO NOT deserve the same quality of education that was provide for white and European immigrant children 40 to 50 years ago.
    Today in NYC we are building two Multi-billion dollar baseball stadiums with tax payer money while they education budget is being cut by about whopping 10%! The education budget used to increase year to year to accomodate the ever increasing number of students now it goes down and down.
    Somehow Citizenship (RESIDENCY REQUIREMENTS) in the USA no longer matter in certain minorty dominated areas . See an illegal immigrant can force his child into the local public school in the Bronx but somehow the schools in Scardale are NOT forced to accept children that can NOT prove residency within that zip code. WHY IS THAT?

    MONEY IS KEY IN EDUCATION. Notice that all of the best schools IN THE WORLD are well funded. I do not care how much people “care” without the proper facilities a poor school will NOT produce a Noble Prize winning scientist. What about the lack of sports & arts programs in under-funded schools? Does this not deminish the interest in school for poorer children?

    In many ways it is unfair to compare the cost of running a school system in the suburbs as opposed to a major city.
    As mentioned before the suburbs do NOT have the burden of NON-TAX PAYING (NON-VOTING) families filling up the schools with UNFUNDED children. Lets also factor the cost difference of building a school in suburbia and the city. The land necessary for a school in NYC will cost more than the entire building project in the burbs. Many schools in NYC must pay extra to rent additional space for sports activities. It also cost that teacher more to commute and pay for parking in areas of NYC that crowded yet do NOT have adequate public transportation. Storage for books and supplies cost more, many of the older school buildings are very maintenance intensive and cost $$$$. Hell, ever try to wire up a 100 year old building for a computer network? It will cost you about 3x as much as one of the suburban school buildings built after 1950! How about fixing one of those 8′ by 4′ windows in an older building.

    So when the state makes the silly claim that they are funding each student equally it is a bunch of B.S.! If it costs $10,000 a year to educate a child in the burbs it cost about $13,500 to educate that same child in the city. So yes, that local Pol.does have a valid point when he says “they are not seing the money”.

    Now lets add to this mix that little nasty issue of racism. Far too many people involved in education in the USA today still have the mentality that black children are not as smart or capable as their white counterparts so they ACTIVELY do NOT put forth the proper effort to educate these children. Lets also consider that their are many folks in the system that WILL do things to hold a black child back. Education is a pyriamid for every minority child that does not success it ensure a place for a white child in the better high-education institutions.

  4. Wizz says:

    I don’t quite get how teacher unions factor into this other than that they exist to get their members higher salaries and benefits. And based on the the almost yearly teacher strikes that go on in the area (including the suburbs) they are trying to do that. I am not a teacher so I can not speak to how good they are at it but if they don’t like their leadership then they can get rid of them.

    The city schools operate at $10K per student. The best suburban schools operate at almost twice that at 17K+. This is NOT right. I don’t care how you look at it. There is no justifying that. And if it is wrong and everybody knows it’s wrong, inlcuding you, then why the hell isn’t anybody working on fixing the damn problem?… Meeks is right to do whatever it takes to get people to question this and come up with solutions. If not for Meeks there is no way the governor would have called for a special session to address it and there is no way you, in California, would be talking about a local Chicago issue. And we all know it is not just a Chicago issue.

    If $10K is enough to teach a child then that’s what everybody should get, right? You would NEVER suggest that we should lower the per student money for those suburban schools, no matter how bad or good they might be. So why should we settle for less for our kids? If it takes 17K, then damnit everybody should get 17K. And why should I, who is responsible, and my children, who do get good grades, be penalized with sub-standard conditions because we didn’t spend $400K on a house we couldn’t afford in a neighborhood that does have excellent schools. A lot of the people who did do that are now bankrupt or stuck with a house that is only worth half of what they mortgaged it for. And we SHOULD be encouraging middle class blacks to stay in these neighborhoods. That is one of the few things that will help in turning them around. Not encouraging them to leave to the suburbs taking all their knowledge and resources with them. The only way we will be able to keep these people in these neighborhoods is to fix the school and the crime problems.

    And I’m all for holding schools responsible… But shouldn’t they at least start at the SAME point?? How the hell can you expect a school to compete with another school that is getting twice as much funding as them? I won’t even go into the fact that the parents of these kids were educated in the same crap conditions. If the parent didn’t get anything from school then they probably are not going to push education as being important to their kids… So they are already starting off in a hole… But that is whole other conversation with a whole lotta grey area.

    As far as politicians… Meeks is one. He is one of the few who IS trying to do SOMETHING to change this equation.. It has been this way for DECADES now. He knows the only way it is going to change is for people to demand it. Money isn’t everything but it, without a doubt, matters.

  5. Duane says:

    I’ll start backwards in my responses.

    I don’t quite get how teacher unions factor into this other than that they exist to get their members higher salaries and benefits.

    Again, look at the amount of money teachers pay in dues per paycheck. After that, take into consideration the millions of dollars that both national and local unions funnel to politicians vs. putting that money directly into the pockets of teachers who have to go into their own pockets to buy things like supplies. Yes dues are important, but you miss the whole purpose of a UNION if you will not help your members at this level.

    The city schools operate at $10K per student. The best suburban schools operate at almost twice that at 17K+. This is NOT right. I don’t care how you look at it. There is no justifying that.

    Wizz, did you not hear anything I said earlier? Let’s recap.
    If parents don’t care (i.e. fail to show up at parent/teacher meetings), kids don’t either bother showing up for school or excessively cut up in class (yes you have your exceptions), what makes you think that more funding will change all of that? Please answer that question for me.

    Meeks is right to do whatever it takes to get people to question this and come up with solutions.

    Another question I would like for you to answer. If Meeks strongly believes that parents and children in his district have a right to better education, why then do you believe he and his party continuosly votes down options like school vouchers all the while politicians in his cabal take full advantage of sending their own kids to schools of their choice? There is a report out there (If I had the time, I would post it for you) that showed that public school teachers in the inner-city are more likely to send their own kids to private schools than non-teachers. Again, you ask what do unions have to do with it? Ask them why they are against giving parents the same options they fully use for their own benefit.

    You would NEVER suggest that we should lower the per student money for those suburban schools, no matter how bad or good they might be.

    Again, read what I said–PLEASE!!!

    ===
    That is the one good thing I liked about NCLB. If your school is consistantly underperforming, your funding gets reduced. And that money goes to schools that are performing well.
    ===

    Schools that consistently under-perform should be flagged and given a plan of action to do better. If they continue to under perform, SHUT-THEM-DOWN!! The money is better spent on schools that are performing well. Inner-city, suburb, doesn’t matter.

    And why should I, who is responsible, and my children, who do get good grades, be penalized with sub-standard conditions because we didn’t spend $400K on a house we couldn’t afford in a neighborhood that does have excellent schools.

    1. Save up your money
    2. Locate a better community with a better school district
    3.Move

    That is what folks of all races have been doing for years. I’ve seen my share of single mothers do the same.

    And we SHOULD be encouraging middle class blacks to stay in these neighborhoods.

    You’ll go far with that one.

    How the hell can you expect a school to compete with another school that is getting twice as much funding as them?

    If parents aren’t involved, all you are doing is paying for very expensive babysitters.

    Meeks is one. He is one of the few who IS trying to do SOMETHING to change this equation..

    By encouraging kids to not show up for class and having them taught by a handful of retired teachers? Even the folks behind the Million Father March dissagree with him on this tactic–AND SOME/MANY OF THEM ARE FATHERS .

    If Meeks want to be effective, he should ask himself why doing the job that many of the parents aren’t doing in the first place? Getting involved in the affairs of the local school district. Meeks can do away with the symbolic gestures and get to the hard work–encouraging all parents to get involved so that they can make a better case to get more funding.

    ============

    The American education systems was designed to work WITHOUT parental involvement.

    I agree with you 110%. There is a book I read a few years back that really goes into the history of public schools in this country. Its called “The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America” (deliberatedumbingdown.com). This by far is the best book I have ever read that goes into the history of public schools in this country.

    We also have a culture that has openly determined that Black and Latino Children DO NOT deserve the same quality of education that was provide for white and European immigrant children 40 to 50 years ago.

    Not true! Black, Latinos, Whites, Asians, etc. that settle for whatever reason for schools to give them crap, that is exactly what they are going to get. Those that make sacrifices to see to it their kids have the best of education will oftentimes get it. This is regardless of social-economic status.

    Somehow Citizenship (RESIDENCY REQUIREMENTS) in the USA no longer matter in certain minorty dominated areas . See an illegal immigrant can force his child into the local public school in the Bronx but somehow the schools in Scardale are NOT forced to accept children that can NOT prove residency within that zip code. WHY IS THAT?

    Two words: PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT. I’ll continue to say it over and over again. Traditionally Blacks and Hispanics turn out in very low numbers for local elections. If they don’t care, the politicians will.

    Education is a pyriamid for every minority child that does not success it ensure a place for a white child in the better high-education institutions.

    So again, explain how you managed to make it. Then ask yourself why others are not able to follow your lead of hard work and determination.

    Okay (whew!). Here is my basic point. I think that we can all agree that all children should be treated equally in the public school system. However, if you have two schools–one that is doing very well with graduation rates and college preparedness while the other you have to come up with program after incentive just to get the parents involved and the kids to come to school, how can you suggest that finances will place these kids on an equal footing? Again, this is not a simple Black/White issue. There are way too many dynamics for Meeks to make a reasonable case.

  6. Give it a rest says:

    Duane,

    When I worked at NYC ACS (Admin Childrens Services) one of the things I became painfully aware of was the fact that society has deemed that the children of foster care must NOT receive any benefit from the governement that the average middle class family can not give their own children.

    Any program that could be created to REALLY help these foster children does not get approval if it would appear that these children are getting some advantge that should be offered to the child of a tax paying citizen first.

    Now I hate conspricy theroies and theroists but when all is said and done there is any underlying current that runs through this country (and for the rest of the world for that matter) that divides the different classes.

    Somwhow, someway Education MUST be better in the more expensive suburbs than in the poor inner city. Think about it, if the schools were not better in the burbs would you have moved there? Would you have paid as much for your home and would you be willing to pay the higher taxes. The answer is no (unless you are retired with grown children).

    In many ways the whole “Parental Involvement” issue has been turned into a big red herring that many are using to confuse the general education issue. Trust me those white suburbs do have many problems with students with indifferent parents. The also have many children with learning problems. THe difference is the white teachers in those school are generally a part of that coumminty and have their HEART into the job of educating those children. On the otherhand when you go into an innner city school the prevailing attitude with most teachers is that it is JUST a job. this goes for many of the black teachers too that only come into the inner city to do ther job and get their check.

    The reason the so many folks are harping all over Parental Invovlvement is because they are no longer doing their jobs. They believe it is acceptable to view the children in their schools with contempt and not care that at the end of the school year as teachers they themselves have effectively FAILED along with their students.

    I have attented both private and public schools and have tutored students from both enviornmetns. Far too many of teh public school chidlren (even those that care) Express a lack of pride in their school, they also approach their education with a level of disdain that is ACTIVELY being fostered in their schools.
    Even if parents DO care, if the teachers and adminstrators do not they have enormous power to supercede the values being fostered in the home.

  7. Duane says:

    Trust me those white suburbs do have many problems with students with indifferent parents.

    Now come on man, the suburbs aren’t just White anymore. You have plenty of Black folks and others that have relocated there as well. The White Citizens Council hasn’t come to our door to give us the right foot of fellowship.

    Do schools in the suburbs have some of the same problems you will find in the inner-city? Depends on the makeup of the families in that district. In all the areas I have lived in this country over the years, the worst schools were schools that not just underfunded, but where a majority of the kids came from single-parented homes (suburbs or ‘hood, White/Black/Hispanic). There is a town out here right now that serves as a far suburb of LA. Nice homes (many of them were built in the past 6 years). But when it comes to crime, gang crime, they are not that far off from LA. But look at the makeup–many of these families relocated from LA thinking that their lil’ gang children (who were actual members of a gang) were going to magically leave the gang life behind in the city simply because they live in a new house.

    Even if parents DO care, if the teachers and adminstrators do not they have enormous power to supercede the values being fostered in the home.

    True and so.

    Again, is is usually at this point where parents will look for a school where the teachers do see their job as more than just a paycheck.

  8. Wizz says:

    If parents don’t care (i.e. fail to show up at parent/teacher meetings), kids don’t either bother showing up for school or excessively cut up in class (yes you have your exceptions), what makes you think that more funding will change all of that? Please answer that question for me.

    You can not seriously be suggesting that the majority of our kids are not good students… I hope you are not allowing the D and F students to define our children. The A, B, and C students are NOT the “exceptions”. They are the majority. And they deserve to have as much resources and oppurtunities as the suburb kids. I don’t really give a damn about the D, F students.. If it were up to me they would be kicked out immediately until they are ready to learn. But THEY are the ones who are the “exceptions” not the good kids. And yes more funding will absolutely help these A, B, C students… There is no doubt.

    Another question I would like for you to answer. If Meeks strongly believes that parents and children in his district have a right to better education, why then do you believe he and his party continuosly votes down options like school vouchers…

    I don’t know Meeks position on school vouchers. I can only tell you what I think about it. I am for school vouchers. But I am not dumb enough to think that they will do anything to improve the overall education of our children. There is no way all of those A,B,C students I mentioned above can just up and go to another school… For several reasons that I know you know… The “good” schools are only going to accept tiny percentages of them.. then what?… In many cases the “good” schools are many miles away…. then what?… In many cases these GOOD students do not have good parents… then what?.. For many cases the vouchers won’t cover the entire cost of the school… then what? We just throw up our hands and say, oh well?… Sorry… Too bad for you. These students deserve to have schools as good as everybody else. Those are the kids Meeks (and I) am arguing with you about. If they can move.. Great.. Bye. If they can afford private school.. Cool. Good Luck. If you make if of the wait list for one of those great schools.. Good for you… But there are a hell of lot more good kids that won’t be able to do those things. And your attitude appears to be, “Oh well… Not my kids.”

    Again, read what I said–PLEASE!!!

    I read what you said… Now you read what I said…

    And I’m all for holding schools responsible… But shouldn’t they at least start at the SAME point?? How the hell can you expect a school to compete with another school that is getting twice as much funding as them?

    You never addressed that question and this is what I am refering to when I say you would never consider lowering the money to the suburban schools. If you are going to compare two things you do not give one a huge head start and advantage and tell the other one to make due with what you have. If you don’t want to increase funding to the city schools then we should decrease funding to the suburban schools, right?… NOW. Not AFTER the NCLB testing… Before it. Prepare for the firestorm if anybody even considers such a thing. But the little black boys and girls?? They can make due.

  9. Duane says:

    You can not seriously be suggesting that the majority of our kids are not good students…

    In low performing schools….uh yeah.

    The A, B, and C students are NOT the “exceptions”. They are the majority.

    If that was the case CPS would not be in this predicament in the first place.

    But I am not dumb enough to think that they will do anything to improve the overall education of our children.

    So if you think that one has to be dumb to believe that vouchers will do ANYTHING, why do you support them?

    Vouchers give kids in these situations an option. Not a guarantee, an option. Parents who normally could not afford a private school are given some help to send their kids. Another point is that there are many private schools out there that target low-income students and are crafted to help accommodate the financial piece.

    You never addressed that question…

    And I already gave you the answer. Don’t like it? Can’t help you.

    “Meeks can do away with the symbolic gestures and get to the hard work–encouraging all parents to get involved so that they can make a better case to get more funding.”

    I already gave a link that shows documented proof of what happens when parents are actively involved in their child’s education. If that is too simplistic of reason behind why these kids are failing, oh well.

    While you may try to make the case that equal funding will magically solve things like failing graduation/drop-out rates, I’m more interested in solving the problems that cause these kids to fail in the first place. Again, I pointed to documented proof that shows that when parents are involved, grades go up. So far all you have offered is

    “And yes more funding will absolutely help these A, B, C students… There is no doubt.”

    A, B, C students, yes. The only problem here is that according to you they make up the majority (nevermind the fact that I can provide a list of CPS schools that were closed). Why? Low building utilization and academic failure.

    Now, back to the questions I had for you.

    If parents don’t care (i.e. fail to show up at parent/teacher meetings), kids don’t either bother showing up for school or excessively cut up in class (yes you have your exceptions), what makes you think that more funding will change all of that? Please answer that question for me.

    ===

    Another question I would like for you to answer. If Meeks strongly believes that parents and children in his district have a right to better education, why then do you believe he and his party continuously votes down options like school vouchers all the while politicians in his cabal take full advantage of sending their own kids to schools of their choice?

    You may not be familiar with Meek’s voting record on this issue, but you are certainly familiar with Democratic position on this issue. Meek’s is playing the “Do as I say, not as I do” game here.
    ===

    If you don’t want to increase funding to the city schools then we should decrease funding to the suburban schools, right?… NOW. Not AFTER the NCLB testing… Before it. Prepare for the firestorm if anybody even considers such a thing. But the little black boys and girls?? They can make due.

    First off, get right what I said.

    Schools that consistently under-perform should be flagged and given a plan of action to do better. If they continue to under perform, SHUT-THEM-DOWN!! The money is better spent on schools that are performing well. Inner-city, suburb, doesn’t matter.

    Second of all, your suggestion that middle-class Blacks who relocated to the suburbs should move back to the ‘hood as a way to improve schools will get you slapped by most Black folks regardless of political persuasion.

    For the sake of argument, there is a little part of me that would like to see the state add the additional 7k per student to make funding equal across the board. So when the outcomes are still the same, I guess the next excuse will be…global warming.

  10. Richard Froggatt says:

    http://www.ajur.uni.edu/v5n1/Syed%20%20pp%2019-26.pdf

    In this study two sixth grade science classes were observed. One from Detroit and one from Dearborn. The Detroit school receives $7k+ per student and the Dearborn school receives about $1300.00 more per student. The Detroit class used handouts instead of textbooks because the ones at the school are ten years old, whereas the administration in Dearborn are considering giving the students each two textbooks (one for class and one for home).

    Before I ask my questions about funding consider this quote:
    In 2005, 29% of graduating seniors from the Detroit public school district met or exceeded writing standards for their grade level, compared to 46% of graduating seniors from the Dearborn public school district (MI Dept. of Education 2004-2005).

    My questions are: What is $1300 going to do that $7k is failing to do? Where is the $7k going?

    Also, 29% is a bad number; but is 46% really that much better? If funding is only an issue for failing urban schools; who do we blame for the failure of over 50% in suburban schools?

  11. Wizz says:

    You admit that there is a problem with the funding but continue to offer up excuses for the status quo.

    In low performing schools….uh yeah.

    Aren’t we supposed to be talking about CPS funding? This affects all schools not just under performing schools. There are 100s of thousands of good kids in good and bad schools getting half the the funding of their peers. So what about the schools that are not under performing? What is your excuse or justification that they don’t get the same funding as their peers? You in one breath say that is not good then in the next justify it.

    As you have said countless times government has no control over making people be better parents. There are countless programs some even by Meeks and his fellow pastors to try to help people be better parents.. You don’t have to work on one aspect of a problem at a time.
    Governments do control budgets and funding though. And after DECADES of inequity we have every right to demand they fund schools equally so that our best a brightest have access to the same books, the same teachers, the same technology, the same arts, the same extra curricular and personality building activities as their peers.. Why is that so hard to understand?

    And yes the vast majority of students affected by this disparity in funding are good (A,B,C) students. If you don’t believe me look at the data yourself:

    Individual School breakdown
    Citywide breakdown
    CPS At a Glance

    You will find very few schools below 50% on the standardized tests. And if you look at the citywide numbers you will see that they look even better and are improving… So my answer to your question stands as is.

    So if you think that one has to be dumb to believe that vouchers will do ANYTHING, why do you support them?

    Because as I said it will help a few kids that are lucky enough to get off the waiting lists. It will be no different than the charter schools that we already have… If they are available to you and you are lucky enough to get selected off the waiting lists then great for you, too bad for everybody else.

    Second of all, your suggestion that middle-class Blacks who relocated to the suburbs should move back to the ‘hood as a way to improve schools will get you slapped by most Black folks regardless of political persuasion.

    For the record… I said no such thing. Aren’t you the one always complaining about people getting your words wrong?

    ===========

    @Richard,

    My questions are: What is $1300 going to do that $7k is failing to do? Where is the $7k going?

    I don’t think anyone is saying that funding is the only problem with urban schools… At least I’m not. And the difference between the districts you noted are not that large compared to the Chicago ones we are discussing but certainly $1300 would certainly be enough to buy proper books. And if you multiply that $1300 by the much larger Detroit population then that number is pretty significant. As you suggest there are other problems in both suburbs and urban schools. To me though that is not a justification to say that your kids minds are worth $1300 more than my kids. And I could be mistaken but I am somewhat familiar with the Detroit area and there are other suburbs in the Detroit area where the difference is much larger.

  12. Duane says:

    You admit that there is a problem with the funding but continue to offer up excuses for the status quo.

    Wha?

    Wizz, you are the one that still is fluttering around doing everything you can to avoid answering my questions. In the meantime you want me to answer yours–and I did.

    So what about the schools that are not under performing?

    For the reading impaired in the house, allow me to bold what I have said repeatedly.

    Schools that consistently under-perform should be flagged and given a plan of action to do better. If they continue to under perform, SHUT-THEM-DOWN!! The money is better spent on schools that are performing well. Inner-city, suburb, doesn’t matter.

    There are countless programs some even by Meeks and his fellow pastors to try to help people be better parents.. You don’t have to work on one aspect of a problem at a time.

    Good for them. How are the parents responding?

    And after DECADES of inequity we have every right to demand they fund schools equally so that our best a brightest have access to the same books, the same teachers, the same technology, the same arts, the same extra curricular and personality building activities as their peers.. Why is that so hard to understand?

    Nothing to hard to understand from here except for fact that you keep voting for a party that takes full advantage of school choice while denying it for the kids you care about. Still waiting for an answer to this question-

    If parents don’t care (i.e. fail to show up at parent/teacher meetings), kids don’t either bother showing up for school or excessively cut up in class (yes you have your exceptions), what makes you think that more funding will change all of that?

    Our best and brightest do have access to the same books, etc. — They move to another school district. If they are for some reason not able to do so, they are doing just fine and are well on their way to graduation. Good students are only *stuck* if parents aren’t willing to sacrifice LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE to to go the extra mile for their children. Black history is full of these examples–examples that didn’t require a Black preacher/politician asking kids to not show up for class in order to score some political points (if he is not taking his own party to task on this issue, yes he his trying to score points that are meaningless to these kids). If they are for some reason not able to leave the district, they are doing just fine and are well on their way to graduation.

    My Dad worked on an ice cream truck and pulled graves at a steel mill. My mother worked for a call center selling CraftMatic beds and worked at Sears. “Stuck” was not in their vocabulary, so they saved their money and moved out of North Philly–just like many Black families then and now. As I mentioned earlier, I’ve seen more of my fair share of single-parented families make the necessary sacrifices to move their kids out of poor performing school districts. Banging the beggars’ cup in hopes that some politician will toss some change to a school — all while your kids are getting older is way too much to gamble. I’ll choose my own destiny, not the government. If you got beef with Black folks who choose to leave the hood all while you have chosen to stay, that may be more of a personal issue.

    Here is the question again

    Another question I would like for you to answer. If Meeks strongly believes that parents and children in his district have a right to better education, why then do you believe he and his party continuously votes down options like school vouchers all the while politicians in his cabal take full advantage of sending their own kids to schools of their choice?

    As far as your data goes, be sure to check out the entire sheet (hint: check out the percentage under the NO DATA row).

    If you were to slow down a listen for just a moment, you would notice that we are saying the same thing on many of the points surrounding this issue. Schools that are under performing consistently, cut them. Schools that are doing well, fund them. Where the “good” schools and “bad” schools are located, I don’t care.

    For the record… I said no such thing.

    So you are encouraging middle-class Black folks to stay. Please tell me the difference. Then again, nevermind.

    Yes. Nevermind.

  13. Wizz says:

    You don’t think I’m hearing you and I don’t think you are hearing me. I will try one last time then I’ll let it go since you know more about Chicago school funding than me or Meeks.

    Schools that consistently under-perform should be flagged and given a plan of action to do better. If they continue to under perform, SHUT-THEM-DOWN!! The money is better spent on schools that are performing well. Inner-city, suburb, doesn’t matter.

    WHAT IS YOUR PROPOSAL TO GET MONEY TO THE SCHOOLS THAT ARE PERFORMING?? That is the issue and the point where we differ. And as YOU already stated THEY ARE ALREADY SHUTTING DOWN BAD SCHOOLS. You are not saying something that everybody doesn’t already know. They can shut down a hundred more and there would still be huge difference in the funding and the ones that remain would over utilized. So your “solution” is insufficient. Also the money to the under performing schools is ALREADY cut. It started out the gate cut…. I don’t think I can be any more clear than that.


    Still waiting for an answer to this question-…

    If parents don’t care (i.e. fail to show up at parent/teacher meetings), kids don’t either bother showing up for school or excessively cut up in class (yes you have your exceptions), what makes you think that more funding will change all of that?

    I have answered this question several times over… AGAIN, I don’t give a damn about them. It won’t help them and I don’t really care. I don’t think I can be any more clear than that.

    If you got beef with Black folks who choose to leave the hood all while you have chosen to stay, that may be more of a personal issue.

    That is ridiculous and I said no such thing… I have said several times that if you can move great. Your parents worked hard to move great for them and great for you. Do you understand the concept of magnitudes of scale? There are thousands of parents in the area that do move. I’ll even give you that tens of thousands of people that can do that… There are HUNDREDS of thousands of good kids and families that can not do that. You refuse to see that your solution to “just move” is unrealistic to the vast majority of these students. Middle class parents and families are not the only people who work hard in this country and care about their children. And AGAIN there are many (thousands at least) of very smart children with dumb parents… Your “solution” is insufficient for them as well.

    I’ve answered your question on vouchers several times. I don’t know how I can be more clear. Again orders of magnitude… You want to help thousands.. Maybe even tens of thousands if done right with vouchers.. Great. I’m all for it. But I’m not taking my eye off the hundreds of thousands that more funding would help… No other party is even talking about that while democrats are. Of course the democrats need more pushing on this and that is what Meeks is doing. There are at least some democrats talking about and trying to do something about funding. So I’m rolling with them. Now I can throw the same question back at you.. If republicans care about education and children then why do they continually vote down more funding for these hundreds of thousands of good children who barely get the basics while their children’s school districts enjoy all the perks and luxuries of proper funding?

    (if he is not taking his own party to task on this issue, yes he his trying to score points that are meaningless to these kids)

    Ridiculous statement… Who do you think runs Chicago and Illinois governments?

    If you were to slow down a listen for just a moment, you would notice that we are saying the same thing on many of the points surrounding this issue.

    Good… And I’ll continue to put my support behind the people who are trying to do something about it. And not just sitting back and waiting for some kind of fairy tale equilibrium to be reached decades from now by closing bad schools. And If you think they are “just fine” then no… We are not saying the same thing… You think succeeding despite the conditions is “just fine”. I want our children to have THE SAME (not better or superior, just the same) conditions so that they have the opportunity to do even better. If you can’t see the difference then.. Oh well…

  14. Duane says:

    I will try one last time then I’ll let it go since you know more about Chicago school funding than me or Meeks.

    And clearly you know more about what’s best for the kids despite the fact THEIR OWN FATHERS AND OTHER MEN in the community think that Meek’s approach is a dumb idea.

    WHAT IS YOUR PROPOSAL TO GET MONEY TO THE SCHOOLS THAT ARE PERFORMING??

    Already answered. Where is your proof that an additional 7k will produce equal results? Still waiting on that one.

    AGAIN, I don’t give a damn about them. It won’t help them and I don’t really care. I don’t think I can be any more clear than that.

    Problem is–they are in the same district you want to see funding increased across the board. Mind you, half of school-aged Black males in Illinois attend CPS and they are graduation below the national average. Also, not too long ago, CPS was being hammered for issuing out too many suspencions to Black male students.

    #CPS also had a problem with truancy. As of ’97, 2/3 of ninth graders were not showing up for class. It could have gotten better, but I doubt it since there has been a whole rash of schools that were shut down in CPS since 2000 for either under performance or underutilization.

    #”White, non-Hispanic male students were admitted to Chicago’s Gifted and/or Talented programs at over five times the rate for Black, non-Hispanic male students and Black, non-Hispanic male students were placed in Mental Retardation classifications at a rate twice that for White male students.” (source). Now given the fact these are White kids in the same school district, the question you should be asking is “What advantages do these White kids have over these Black kids?” BOTH HAVE SAME ACCESS TO THE SO-CALLED OLD TEXTBOOKS AND PROGRAMS. If you go with the racism route, be sure to factor in the amount of Black teachers are in this system.

    A few days ago, this article appeared in the Chicago Tribune. Read the whole thing here. In the meantime, here are some excerpts.

    “The issue already has been studied, protested and demagogued to death. Illinois school funding has fostered years of debate, lawsuits, constitutional revisions and a complicated formula for allocating state aid that will make your head spin. The formula ensures a “basic” funding level for every school district and takes into account local property tax base, student population, poverty and average daily attendance.

    It entitles Chicago to more than $1.1 billion in state aid in 2008. Average spending per student for all grades in Chicago is $9,282, about 11 percent higher than the statewide average, according to greatschools.net, but certainly lower than the $17,184 spent on each New Trier student. But then, nearly everyone spends less than New Trier. That’s because New Trier generally is free to spend whatever additional money it wants, and so it does, in large sums.

    […]

    Truth is, the biggest problem with Chicago and other major school systems is manifested in the performance of black male students. A recent study by the Schott Foundation for Public Education concludes that African-American males in Chicago’s public schools are less than half as likely to graduate as their white peers. The foundation attributes the poor performance to “the resource disparities that exist in schools attended by black males and their white, non-Hispanic counterparts.”

    […]

    But if resource inequities account for the poor performance, why don’t their white male, Hispanic and black female counterparts do as badly? After all, they are going to the same public schools in Chicago. Or are only Chicago’s African-American male students shipped off to junkier schools, where they can only use the “colored” water fountain? Is it part of the state funding formula to somehow apportion less funding to black males? Are black males forced to use 20-year-old textbooks, while everyone else gets new ones? What precisely is there about how money is spent that mainly leaves black males so dismally out of it?


    And If you think they are “just fine” then no… We are not saying the same thing…

    Your kids are doing fine, right?

  15. nicko says:

    the new trier district is not responsible for the problems of the city. they do not legislate funding for the inner city, they raise the taxes on their own residents to ensure quality education for their children. also- winnetka, kenilworth, wilmette, glenco & skokie are not a part of chicago. people move out there to escape the problems of the city, and do so under a heavy financial toll.

    if they vote to repave their roads in their communities, are they then responsible for the streets throughout the entire city of chicago? didn’t think so. don’t blame small communities for the state’s inefficiency and negligence.

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