The part of the story that will get lost in the noise

Posted: May 8, 2008 in Headlines

“Ramsey said that the latest incident occurred after a team of narcotics officers with the 25th Police District in North Philadelphia witnessed a triple shooting during a drug surveillance at 4th and Ansberry streets. The officers were hoping to arrest drug suspects and question them about the slaying of Andrew Coach on Sunday, Ramsey said.”

“Police watched as four men got out of a gold Mercury Grand Marquis and walked to the corner. One of them then fired upon three other men standing on the corner. The man who fired took off running and his three companions got back in the Grand Marquis and drove off, with police in pursuit, Ramsey said.”

[…]

“The three shooting victims are recovering from their gunshot wounds, police said.”

[…]

“Dyches, Hopkins and Hall have been charged with attempted murder, aggravated assault, weapons possession and criminal conspiracy. Bail was set at $300,000 for Hall and $1 million for Hopkins.” (more…)

===

If the cops stepped over the line in how they handled this arrest, then may they get what is coming to them. In the meantime, I not about to throw all my anger towards the cops when these boys just finished trying to add to the growing body count of young Black men in that city.

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Comments
  1. DarkStar says:

    So far, I’ve heard the suspected crime mentioned in local and national news accounts.

  2. Symphony says:

    We will definitely hear about their crimes and I’m okay with that, it simply doesn’t absolve cops of wrong doing.

    It seems like the force was excessive. As much as we want to, cops cant kicks someone butt for whatever horrible crime they have or may have committed.

    Its why I believe police officer is one of those jobs that require a special kind of person.

  3. Give it a rest! says:

    Duane,

    Not for nothing but as a New Yorker I can tell you that the racist police over here would just love to have you over for dinner tonight.

    As long as we have black folks that refuse to take into consideration the bigger picture,innocent young black men like Sean Bell will continue to be murdered with impunity by the police. Trust me someone in law-enforcement has most likely read your blog and now believe they have found another Negro that is OK with the colaterial damage/deaths at the hands of the cops because he/she is one of the good blacks that do not commit crimes.

    Lets say for the sake of argument that there were actually two gold Grand Marquis driving around in that neighborhood that night and these oh-so intelligent cops had happened to stop the wrong one which happened to have 3 innocent black college students in it??????

    Tell me do you believe a few innocent black dudes should just take one for the cause because the cops had reason to believe they were the correct suspects? Or should the police simple be held to a higher standard were by they do NOT beat up suspects at their own whim?

    Devil’s advocate:

    Not to say it is right, but who knows if those guys were out to “get” someone who had just raped one of their sisters or mothers. Maybe they were actually cleaning up some dirty drug dealers?

    Sad but true, just because you see someone pump bullets into someone else do not mean that a CRIME is being committed. Self defense is a god & constitutionally given right in the USA.

  4. Duane says:

    Give it a rest,

    Maaaannnn! On this particular issue you are full of it!!!

    As long as we have black folks that refuse to take into consideration the bigger picture,innocent young black men like Sean Bell will continue to be murdered with impunity by the police.

    Where to start.

    Do you know how many Black folks were killed just in Philadelphia last year BY OTHER BLACK PEOPLE? Now take that number and compare it to the amount of Black folks that were killed by officers that crossed the line. And I’m not looking at the bigger picture?

    Symphony says that “it SEEMS that the force was excessive” and I tend to agree with her. However, I don’t think that any of us can state police protocol for a person (or persons) that were just witnessed shooting someone and are believed to still be armed. Al Sharpton is already going around comparing this situation to Rodney King. Sorry, but based on the video this is a far cry from that particular incident.

    Lets say for the sake of argument that there were actually two gold Grand Marquis driving around in that neighborhood that night and these oh-so intelligent cops had happened to stop the wrong one which happened to have 3 innocent black college students in it??????

    As far as we know, that is not what happened. Stick to the actual story. Read what Chief Ramsey (A BLACK MAN– if that matters to you) is stating about what these 3 (actually 4) guys were seen doing before they got caught.

    Tell me do you believe a few innocent black dudes should just take one for the cause because the cops had reason to believe they were the correct suspects?.

    And this is exactly how misinformation gets out on any issue. A “what if?” is injected and somewhere down the road some individual who is only interested in finding stories that on the surface buttresses a certain narative will run with it. You apparently have concluded that these cops were fueled by racism based on a SILENT video shot taken hundreds of feet in the air.

    Do police cross the line? Sure they do. Should they be punished for it? Yes, and oftentimes they do thanks in part to mainstream media. However, when a Lennie McCloud or Terrill Gillette is shot by another Black individual and the media was not there to cover it with video, I don’t hear any conspiracy theories floating around about a possible racist plot to destroy “innocent” Black individuals. No, they are oftentimes dissmissed as niggas (by other Black folks) who basically got caught up with the wrong crowd. You mentioned the Sean Bell situation earlier. Those cops are still not out of the woods as the case can still be re-tried and possibly the Feds can get involved. While it may not be perfect, we have a decent system in this country that do hold cops to a much higher standard. Too bad the same system isn’t as effective for repeat offenders who oftentimes do way more damage to a community than a cop who crosses the line with one (or a few) individuals on one particular night.

    One more time– If the cops stepped over the line in how they handled this arrest, then may they get what is coming to them. In the meantime, I am not about to portray these guys as innocent individuals who were for no reason were roughed up by a bunch of cops. That is what you want to believe. I on the other hand prefer to wait until more solid information about this case is made public. I suggest you do the same.

    =====

    UPDATE—-

    I just came across this article this morning.

    “The mayor and police commissioner of Philadelphia have called the videotaped beatings of three restrained black men by several officers “inexcusable” and “unacceptable,” but both say it had nothing to do with race.”

    […]

    Ramsey said that Liczbinski’s death is no excuse for the actions of the officers caught on tape.

    “I understand the emotion,” said Ramsey. “I understand everything that’s involved, but there’s nothing in our policy that would allow kicking individuals and taking them into custody the way I saw on that tape.” (more…)

    From the way it sounds, these cops were already pissed off that one of their own was gunned down recently and decided to cut loose on anybody remotely involved with that case. If that is the case, these cops should get punished for that. But bringing race into this situation will turn a bad situation worse.

  5. Give it a rest! says:

    Duane,

    Some how I knew I would get a response like this from you.

    My point is exactly that the “What If” most always be considered. Those cops in NYC back in November 2006 did NOT take into consideration of the “What If” and guess what an innocent blackman is dead and two others have permenant injuries they will have to live with for the rest of their lives. THAT IS WHY COPS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BEAT ON SUSPECTS!

    Duane, my point is that you and I both just happen to also “fit the description” and with your why of thinking you are willing to empower the police to violate your owns right to somehow make you feel safer.

    The reason I can not agree with you is that the outcome will be the same no matter if the cops are in the right or in the wrong. The cops will get away with it because too many people think like you before the fact and only remember what the real deal is after an innocent blackmen is beaten or dead at the hands of the police.

    Tonight all across America many blackman will be pulled over and harrassed by police simply because they are black, and that alone will be enough for the cops to force them from their vehicles, lay face down on the ground and get totally humiliated at the hands of police.

    Duane, there are many, many, goods cops out here but in all honesty there are also a great deal of racist pigs (some are BLACK)that do wish warm on ANY blackman, yourself and children included. Unlike you and me they do not take the time to firgue out who is a drug dealing scum bag and who is a honest working man. Remember, we all look alike!

    Duane, I would honesty be very hurt if I read that some cops out in Cali mistook you for a “bad guy” and beat the shit out of you because, well they know they can get away with it. Hey they are cleaning up “our” neighborhoods, right? What’s a little colaterial damage, right? So what if one innocent blackman or woman gets hurt or killed if the cops arrest 10 bad guys, right?

    I will end my rant by stating that it NEVER stops at just the criminals getting beat. Even those white dudes that started this country understood that fact over 200 years ago. I know it may be hard for some to understand but those “bad guys” getting beat on the streets of Philly by the cops represents a danger to all of us, black, white, brown, yellow, green, man or woman.

  6. Duane says:

    The cops will get away with it because too many people think like you before the fact and only remember what the real deal is after an innocent blackmen is beaten or dead at the hands of the police.

    Are these cops in Philly “getting away with it?”

    Nope!

    Did the cops get away with shooting Sean Bell?

    Nope! (as I pointed out earlier, there are other legal options still being pursued against them. This was a widely publicized case that did not take place in some dark corner away from public scrutiny)

    Did the cops that beat up on Rodney King get away with it?

    Nope!

    Living out here in the LA area, I can tell you that anytime a cop screws up, it is splashed all over the media. The public raise hell about it and the department is quick to discipline the cop due to pressure from the public and facts around the case. That is today’s America.

    Again, if you want examples where law enforcement in 2008 get away with terrorizing the community, look to places like Africa, Mexico, etc. Again, our system may not be perfect, but it is safe to say that these kinds of actions (as demonstrated by these cops in Philly) are not tolerated as standard practice by the general public.

  7. Give it a rest! says:

    Duane,

    In all fairness the cops that did beat up Rodney King DID get away with it. It was only 2 days of Civil Unrest resulting in a couple billion dollars in damage and the lose of some lives, in the city of LA that made the power that be reconsider……..

    As it stands that Cops that killed Sean Bell have beat the rap in the jurisdiction that they committed the crime. Maybe the fed with step in and maybe they will not? But regardless a standing State Judge in NY has given these cops a pass simply because they are cops.

    Duane, I think you are missing the fact that the trial of these officers in NYC was nothing more than a “show-trial”. If you read the transcipt you will see that the verdict was all but a forgone conclusion before the trail even started. Cops v. Blackman = Cops.

    The problem IS, police in the USA are behaving more and more like para-military police that you do find in other parts of the world.

  8. Duane says:

    In all fairness the cops that did beat up Rodney King DID get away with it.

    Uhh…you might want to read what actually happened to those cops in LA.

    The problem IS, police in the USA are behaving more and more like para-military police that you do find in other parts of the world.

    Right! And YOUR RECENT experience with this is based on what? The media?

    You keep wanting to go back to the Sean Bell trial and this is not what this post was about. I agree that that particular trial was flawed, but to use the whole thing as further proof that racism from cops is just as alive and well as it was some years ago is total nonsense.

    As far as the Philly incident goes, again, I think that it is best to wait until all the facts come out before concluding that this is another case where racism has reared its ugly head. You already have both the Mayor and Chief of Police dismissing racism as a motive behind this incident (both of them Black b.t.w.) and for whatever reason you think they are in on the vast conspiracy against the Black man as well.

    The most hypocritical thing about this Philly situation is that not even a year ago that city played unfortunate host to the self-destruction of 392 people (mostly Black). Beyond the borders of Philly, all folks could do is say “it’s a shame to see our Black men kill each other” and then move on to the next issue with ease. Black man gets shot or harassed by a cop? Time to cue up the Public Enemy CD, call up Jesse and Al and make Tuesday “Black t-shirt day”.

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